User talk:RobJ1981/Archive 2

RE: Article creation and improvementdrive
I agree, I think we need more content here, and your idea sounds good to me. Question, if I were to create a PPV article, would I just list the bare minimum results, or try to expand it like we would on Wikipedia? Cheers, L  A  X  04:25, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

Holy crap! Sorry for taking so long, Rob. Anyway, I'm really busy in real life, and when I get home I just want to be lazy. Whenever I fee like doing something, it is generally something on Wikipedia. I don't know of anyone willing to create articles who hasn't already joined ad left, unless you want to unblock Monnitewars. However, he's incredibly disruptive, and has targeted me specifically for abuse ever since I tried to make him shape up; I think that he even compromised my account so he could report me to a staffer for admin abuse. The dispute is here, and spread out through 3 different sections if you want to look at it. I wouldn't recommend unblocking him, as upon his return he'll try to turn us against each other, but if you want someone who has no where else to edit about wrestling, there's your guy. --  The Hybrid  T /C   05:24, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

E-Wrestling Encyclopedia is offering to private chat
Hey there RobJ1981,

It's Sundogs from E-Wrestling Encyclopedia and I noticed your post and I made a little response to it. However, I know that you and the rest of Pro Wrestling Wiki administration team like to have more people to help out here at Pro Wrestling Wiki. If we could talk after the new year, I can pass some ideas to you so that you can pass along to the others. My signature has my proper contact info if you like to respond. If you like to send me a priviate email, just click email this user on my main or talk pages and I will respond to you ASAP of yours (be sure you have an active email to respond to please). I am looking forward to talking with you. Sundogs user 01:45, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Your Comment
I repsonded to your comment on the projects talk page and I see the Brian Adams does have a lot of information and it's pretty much the same as the information on his Wikipedia page as his Wikia page. Your comment on the projects is redundant in a sense. Mr. C.C. 08:32, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

Thanks For The Welcome, I Have Some Ideas
Thanks for the message I only came across this place the other day and see its kind of just a rip of Wiki in some places but given time I’ll add my hand to some of the UK based sections and expand on them properly.

Only thing I so see that’s a bit of a big problem here is categories and if its alright that would be where I’d make my first mark here.

Personally I feel their should be categories for each nationality as well as birth years death years maybe event years then Alumni for ever possible active and inactive company around and maybe one for each active company so say for example Christopher Daniels he would be down for being on the TNA Roster as well as NJPW but would also be Alumni in PWG, ROH, FWA, WWE, WCW, Ect. That could give a more rounded encyclopaedia for this place and something that I don’t think Wiki has.

I’m also pondering something with title categories I just need to define it more cause right now I’m thinking along the lines of one group per company for titles defended in that company in its run but also specifying specific titles so say all World, United States, X-Division, Women’s, Television, ect as well as one that defines World titles not just world heavyweight because I don’t think say the NWA World Television title is a heavyweight title and although World Heavyweight titles are not exclusive to heavyweight it does kind of make it look weird if there is a World Television title in with a World heavyweight, if that makes sense anyway.

Anyway thanks for the welcome and give me a shout on what you think of my ideas if you can, thanks TheWho87 08:11, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

This may be a late edit but this is something I think I need to add, since doing my additions here (mostly in the years) I find it rather annoying that it’s a miss mash of how the events are set for example it may be under its event name (like Unforgiven) or under the event name with the company initials (like WWE Unforgiven) now I don’t know about anyone else but this is rather pointless to me and also I feel that if this place was to be one to be solely on wrestling then there is the great idea of allocating one page per event even if the event is recurring.

Also with me updating the years (I have done 1998, 1999, 2000, 2001, 2006 & 2007 so far) I have noticed that for 2007 there is a different format to the debuts and deaths which I haven’t seen for the other years and I’m curious if you would want them all in the table format or just listed (like I saw on the others and followed through on the ones I did till I came across 2007 later)

Hope you don’t think this is me being picky I just though this place looked good and with some uniformity could make things easier. TheWho87 14:39, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

I get your direction on the alumni categories that was just an idea I had which might not have been good, but I do think that all the key companies should have one like WWE, TNA, ROH, NJPW, AAA & CMLL and others which may come to mind just for the fact their key companies globally.

I might be on and off from time to time and since I have a lot of free time I may do some things which might be useful and some not either way if I do something which aint great just gimme a word and I’ll take not of it, for now the key thing I have seen about here that I’d personally change is what to change the wikied pages (I’d get onto some when I find time) and also to do individual event pages because no offence but the whole one page with the yearly breakdown just screams wiki to me and if you break it down to single pages then you can have things like event notes and such which would be something I don’t see on wiki. And one thing I would say you would need to try and look at is trying to define a way on how a page should be named for its set up so for example would a wrestler come under their real or gimmick name for the page and would an event just be named as the event or would the acronym be added for the company in which it is promoted under be added before.

I hope those make sense if not I need to get more sleep lol.TheWho87 22:53, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

I’ll try and get some people although I don’t know who might be interested, also what do you think of the formatting I have done for the years most noticeable 1997 and 1998 I think they look rather good in that format which is kind of how the template you put up but instead of events under a group their all together and sorted by date which is also what I do for title changes, significant events births, deaths debuts and such.--TheWho87 13:57, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

I am with you on that these days their can be too many events I just got bored earlier and added loads, I didn’t add every company I actually had a load of British ones but thought best not to add them in but personally in recent years I think priority should go to the key companies with staying power or who do have a strong fan base and who do draw top talent to their show (Like CHIKARA, CZW, ECWA, NWA, PWG, ROH, AJPW, NJPW, NOAH, Zero-One, AAA, CMLL, 1PW, IPW:UK)

Also so you know the source I get most of my event dates from is http://www.cagematch.net/ which I feel is one of the best sites out there for wrestling (although it is in German).

Also so you know that for now I’m hopefully planning on finishing the year topics first before moving on to much else, by that its basically filling in the years in the 90’s and 2000’s (which is the point in at now) with all PPV’s as well as the other events then working on titles and birth & debut years when working on the individual wrestler pages. --TheWho87 22:22, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

Moving Away From Wikipedia
This category lists a series of categories of nationalities of wrestlers of either their birth or from the character they played.

I know this might sound stupid but I was thinking this wikia is meant to be solely on professional wrestling right? Then would that not mean their would not be things like Category:American professional wrestlers it should be something like Category:American wrestlers or Category:American promotions and so forth, the professional name was only there in the wikipedia pages and this would give this place a way to move away from the wiki rips plus it also means that you can know which pages have been edited from being wikipedia rips

One drawback means it would be an idea to delete the pages Category:American professional wrestlers, Canadian professional wrestlers, English professional wrestlers as well as Category:Professional wrestlers by country, Category:Mexican professional wrestlers, Category:Female professional wrestlers

That would only then leave topics having Professional in it and they can just be moved and renamed.

Sorry if this all sounds weird I just think this might be a good way to move away from Wikipedia and become its own Wikia if that makes sence-TheWho87 18:05, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

Great now I know this is the direction your after I’ll expand on it when I go through. Also from what I see I think its great that you have turned on what Wikipedia had by having those billed and born from one country in the same set having it defined by birth makes things a lot easier in terms of simplifying things.--TheWho87 21:59, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

Birth year categories and redirects
first off main reason i added them was i say that most of the other pages had them as well so thought they were to be added seeing as you dont want them i will stop adding and remove the ones i have done

in regards to the Tijari thing it was because i saw that he was down as being under that name during a early WWF run hence why it was added it was not added as a spelling mistake it was added as an acctual name he had used--TheWho87 08:33, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

sorry for the re edit here i just want to clarify something, when it comes to redirects i can see the point of not doing them for one off names thats understandable but for any name they have wrestled under for a considerable length of time would that be viable for a redirect for example i was about to finish off Tazz as i know i have done Taz which is his old ECW name but i also have a record of him using the following too Tasmaniac, Tasmaniac #1, Tasmaniac Noga, Tasmanian Devil, Tazmaniac so would these all be viable for redirects or just the main ones?, BTW for this im using a rather reliable source of cagematch.net which tends to have all the main names a wrestler has used also i'd guess real names should also be added in unless their simalar to their name in the ring and one other minor thing i have to ask is say someone who has initials type of thing as their main name like A.J. Styles or T.J. Wilson would it be logical to have a redirect as both say A.J. Styles and AJ Styles cause i know from experience that full stops in searches is down to personal preferance and i dont use them and some people i know do so kinda covering all bases having one down for each you know--TheWho87 08:48, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

Category Web Idea
Me again, I was just thinking of what could be a rather good web of categories for this place, most of which are already up and going and they tend to lead back to the main content page what I am thinking of is having one category on the main content page for the promotion then have the following categories inside of that for that specific promotion, it may look big but if this place is to have every piece of wrestling information on it then this would be a easy and straight forward set up, I thought it would be best to have one on the key promotions around the world (WWE, WCW, ECW, ROH, TNA, NWA, AWA, NJPW, AJPW CMLL & AAA) as well as one for independent wrestling which would cover anything in-between and maybe could contain sub categories to different regional areas (like US, Canada, Mexico, UK, Japan ect) or just have them all together under the same roof, anyway this isn’t really something set in stone and seeing as you one of the admin around here I though best put forward this idea to you first before doing it in practice.

This is a basic idea on how it would be set out.


 * World Wrestling Entertainment (main topic in the content page)
 * World Wrestling Entertainment alumni (any people who have worked for the company would go in here)
 * World Wrestling Entertainment championships (all titles that the company have used would go in here)
 * World Wrestling Entertainment current roster (anyone current under contract to the promotion in here)
 * World Wrestling Entertainment current development roster (any wrestlers under contract to the promotion but in a development deal would be in here)
 * World Wrestling Entertainment events (any non pay per view events by the promotion)
 * World Wrestling Entertainment pay-per-views (any pay per view events the promotion holds would be in here)
 * World Wrestling Entertainment tag teams and stables (any stables or tag teams that have appeared in the company would go in here)

The above would go for all the promotions but if they are defunct (like WCW & ECW) then the current roster pages would not be used, also for example if they don’t have a development territory or are not on pay per view those sections would be voided too.

Here is an idea on how the independent sections would be set out.


 * Independent Wrestling
 * Independent championships
 * Example Promotion A championships (any any promotion not already covered could have a category in this group just for their titles, this would mostly cover any titles not covered in other categories)
 * Independent events
 * Example Promotion A events (any promotion not already covered could have a category in this group just for their teams and events, this would mostly cover any events not covered in other categories)
 * Independent tag teams and stables
 * Example Promotion A tag teams and stables (any promotion not already covered could have a category in this group just for their tag teams and stables, this would mostly cover any tag teams and stables not covered in other categories)

I always forget to add by signature to these things lol--TheWho87 12:08, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

Lol I know the OWW thing and went through a few links on it earlier I think their is about 20 or so pages left that I missed but you do know OWW is active its just not maintained right its just some ass who took all the data from the original and his domain and made a new one.

I really would say that Cagematch.net should be a great source its the best online wrestling resource I have ever found thing is its German kind of the only drawback.

I do have MSN I just don’t wish to give out my address in such a public way last time I did that I got hooked on by some spam shit and I have only just got that over with buy I’ll add you up if you want.--TheWho87 23:24, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

Sorry to bother you but you need to have a word with this WikiD guy from what i see he is posting things under the Professional type (like for example Pro Hardcore Wrestling Rulebook and Professional wrestling rulebook and i have no clue why their are 2 and he is also posting up material which i feel is not real and he has given zero sources to them like Zack Rodes, Corporation of Hardcore Wrestling, Adam Jarrettt‎, CHW Match Types‎, Derek Lemieux, Jaci Wilson‎, Code of Spirit Academy‎ & Stars Wrestling Society Hall of Fame‎--TheWho87 22:36, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

AAA Categories & MSN
Yeah that whole AAA category tree is kind of how I think all the promotions should be laid out cause the main article is on the contents, then inside it has the categories for the alumni, current roster (anyone working their the past 6 months) championships, teams and stables plus events and PPV events that’s something I am going to try and put in on all the main key leagues.

Also I tried that email thing but it didn’t work but I think I can find a way around it, join up to this forum or this one  and send me a PM on both my username is TheWho87 both are secure and I’m admin on both places, first is an efed second is a caw and graphics forum. --TheWho87 00:10, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

ECW Titles & Other Stuff
Hope you got the last message cause I haven’t heard anything from you bout it, anyway I had a though from all places I have seen they throw the ECW title from the original ECW and the current ECW title in WWE together and thought why? So as an idea I thought it might be a good idea to have them broken up here because technically their different titles, the one in the original ECW was considered a world title when the current one isn’t, so that’s why I have moved all the relevant info on the old title under the ECW World Heavyweight Championship and all the stuff on the current belt to ECW Heavyweight Championship basically the same but when it comes down to it the first and all ECW World Heavyweight pages made would be specifically for the original belt where as everything for the current one would be on the ECW Heavyweight pages, its basically splitting up the pages.

I think it might also be good for the World Heavyweight Championship because they bundle that together with the WCW title when although they look the same their not (in my view the WCW title ended its existence when WCW folded likewise with the ECW title so their use in another company who bought them out is not really the original championship) if you get what I mean, also I think the NWA and TNA title could have the same treatment as well but that’s further down the list.--TheWho87 11:34, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

Promotion & Championship Page Guides
Just playing about with layouts of pages but what do you think of pages for promotions set out like this International Pro Wrestling: United Kingdom, it would have a sub page for promotion history, current roster, alumni and a history for events.

Also I was toying with their championships for some ideas on the layouts for them too so have a look at this one IPW:UK Championship, there is sub pages for a list of champions, title changes, as well as a page for all the matches the title has been defended in (titles don’t tend to be defended as much so for lesser promotions could include them all for WWE & TNA maybe the key ones), and for the length and reign stats on another page.

Hope these are good ideas and layouts and if its alright I’d use these guides and put them in force for other promotions and titles.

Also their was a big of a problem with Mounty earlier over the logos I re uploaded, sure I uploaded what’s already up here but I feel that the images I uploaded were more clearer in file names and a lot more uniform to others I had uploaded that would make the files more easier but the guy I think has a problem about this, also he reverted some stuff I did when I removed links to wikipedia which I feel should only be used sparingly here instead of what he had reverted back to which was about 10 links in one section all to wikipedia when some could have been for this site.--TheWho87 10:23, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I happen to think I'm in the right.--Mounty 19:28, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

Request and sorry
I'm sorry for making a sock to get in touch with you but I saw no other way...I would like to request that my Monnitewars account be unblocked as I have been behaved for the past few months on Simple English just check my Editor Review. You can trust me to behave now so please will you unblock me?--Monnitewarsrequest (aka Monnitewars) 19:35, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

why
why has my page been deleted i could have edited it back there were no spoilers on the page?Suckup 103 15:35, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

protection
hey can you plz lock my user talk from being edited it was changed by a unkown user but it has been fixed thnks it would be greatly appreciated if no more vandilism occured on my talk pgs Suckup 103 17:13, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

No Vandilism
why was my page deleted for One Night Stand? Suckup 103 19:36, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

Fan
The fan category was not a sample it was being worked on I just put sample so i had somthing to work with

leave me a message at my user talk
Ty For the help but i ment the image will not fill the box and when i try to put the image up it only gives me the size bar and left to right

Reason
Can i just say that message was a reply to him asking me why i reverted back which was those championship box things i added/updated which he must not have seen when he reverted back i dont care what he does all i did was revert back to get those boxes back--TheWho87 14:36, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

Deleted page showing in Special:Allpages
Hi, I saw your question in IRC one minute after you left. This is a typical caching issue. I purged the page and now it should be ok (otherwise it should have fixed itself after some time). --Avatar 20:03, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

User: 209.173.190.199
You might want to block this guy User: 209.173.190.199 he tends to make topics and add nothing or just remove sections from topis for no reason--TheWho87 01:40, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

Avatar
i have been tryin to get in contact with avatar but he never replys to my messages can you help me? Suckup 103 16:36, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

sorry
Suckup 103 15:17, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

User: 67.87.205.94
you should keep your eye on this user he vandilized several pages

Raw
Spike does not currently present Raw why is it still on the Raw page.Suckup 103 17:15, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

Non Wrestler Categories
I was thinking about the non wrestling staff pages and trying to think of ones that would easily work best and came up with these.


 * Bookers
 * Commentators - (Covers normal and colour commentators and avoids confusion if known as announcers)
 * Executives
 * Interviewers - (for those who tend to just do backstage interviews like Grisham, Crystal and such)
 * Managers and valets
 * On-Air authorities - (this would be to the General managers and such)
 * Promoters
 * Referees
 * Ring announcers - (this would be for those who would primarily be in the ring announcing the match like Lilian Garcia, Justin Roberts, Jeremy Borash and such)
 * Writers

Although their just an idea I’ll move the announcers and colour commentators into commentators category and hopefully this will clean things up.--TheWho87 16:16, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

Re: Chikara event history
Is there some standard for determining what events are noteworthy? Because I was basing the Chikara event history primarily off the Ring of Honor event history and it seemed to be doing the same thing (including every event). Plus, considering that almost every event in Chikara is put out on DVD and no website has a conclusive table of Chikara events on their website such as the one found currently on the event history page, I find it suitable. Though, I do agree with you that some of the events (especially the earlier stuff like 2002) that isn't on DVD doesn't need it's own article. But, even then it could be argued that they should have articles to help create a comprehensive set of results. I compare all the events in Chikara to be similar to PPVS as opposed to being only like episodes of Raw or Smackdown.

Indy Shows & My Idea On A Guideline For Events
Seeing as you went offline before I could say anything I’ll make this point once again, Indy shows are in no way like WWE house shows, for one WWE house shows are not recorded for distribution where as promotions like PWG, ROH, FIP, CHIKARA, Shimmer and such are and their DVD are sold internationally, so stop comparing them to house shows when their clearly not since another factor is that on house shows they rarely develop storylines, feuds and have any title changes (they sometimes do but their a rarity) where as on indy shows these things happen, Indy shows are similar to PPV events in terms of action but on a smaller level, and please don’t say anything about being noticeable, because different people have different views, personally I find these indy leagues more noticeable than anything WWE does and I’m not a person who hates WWE, no it was good its just I find what happens on these shows more interesting since there is more freedom.

Since you don’t know about ROH (which is the best example) lets look at ECW, since they didn’t get PPV till 1997, does that mean that every ECW event prior to this is not noticeable?, Wikipedia doesn’t think so since I have seen many pre 1997 ECW events up there? So this gives the point, events should not be based on how noticeable said show was, it should be on the actual promotion who runs the shows, which is why I would like to propose the following idea.

If you keep it to how I’m trying to work it as one page per event, you could add in some guidelines for which promotions can be permitted to have their events added, this list would be made by an admin of course but for example PPV events by WWF/E, WCW & ECW would automatically be on the allowed events list, for smaller promotions who do not have PPV or who run DVD recorded events they would have to be given the ok by an admin to allow events to be posted, but the ok would be for the promotion as a whole I feel.

Take it or leave it, but since I’m one of the few people here who actually do anything progressive I thought best adding in my 2 cents.

Also I don’t wish this to be viewed as me having any sort of “attitude” im just trying to make this more universal instead of just being a wikipedia rip which the whole place would turn into if you limit any new events which have not been on there.

Oh and please don’t use cagematch as something to bring up since I don’t add “any old event on cagematch” I actually cross reference most of the events on there now with the list of events from the promotions actual sites to be more accurate on names and results and such, I just add cagematch as a easy source site since it does what I personally think should be done here.--TheWho87 06:18, 11 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Slight edit here but I was thinking, are the only events you feel are noticeable are ones for pay per view?, since their the only ones you seem to have subjected in the convocation with me--TheWho87 06:28, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

Reply about events
ROH, Shimmer, FIP, PWG & Chikara all have DVD’s sold via a company which sells them internationally, yes they still do sell their own produced shows, but they have all struck a deal with Big Vision Entertainment in which they allow/work with the company to produce DVD’s for the mainstream market which are sold in general stores who specialise in DVD’s.

Also can I point out I don’t add event pages for any/all event I find, I only add them for key promotions and events, and I personally feel that if a promotion has got DVD’s on sale in normal stores on an international level that gives them enough right to have events here as WWE or TNA.

I also don’t claim that every indy show is notable, it is all dependant on the promotions notability, I would say promotions like PWG, ROH & Chikara are the top promotions in the US outside those on PPV (although ROH is on PPV) so they should have full event records for their shows, I also think Shimmer should have their events recorded since their the top in their market (of women’s wrestling).

How about this idea, instead of basing this on the who “gotta be on TV and PPV to be noticeable” stuff which you seem to be going on, and use the notoriety of the promotion instead and maybe when you get to do the guidelines, you could add a point where there is a list of promotions in which events can be put up for (on a 1 page per event basis), when a promotion is put on this list, it means all the named/key events of that promotion can be added, then you can add in something about, if someone doesn’t see a promotion that they wish to add an event for, to maybe put in a request to add them onto the list, that way your not limiting people, your giving them an option to ask if its not there or to check which are suitable to be added.

Personally I’d say the following should be promotions which would go up in the first draft (if you use the idea of mine)


 * WWE
 * TNA
 * NWA
 * ECW
 * WCW
 * ROH
 * PWG
 * CHIKARA
 * SHIMMER
 * CZW

That covers the main US promotions, then if you wish to expand into international levels you can add these as from what I have noticed their the top in their areas


 * NJPW
 * AJPW
 * NOAH
 * AAA
 * CMLL
 * CWA (Catch Wrestling Association)
 * FWA
 * 1PW
 * IPW:UK

Right now their a list of promotions I would say are in the noticeable bracket in one way or another, you may have noticed there is only about 18 promotions altogether there, which excludes what you were saying by “any indy show is a noticeable event” these lists comprose of what I’d feel the top promotions in the world both by their coverage but by also their fan numbers, each one covers a market and they cover the main markets.

Also I don’t wish to come over as having an “attitude” here its just I’m one of the key people here who actually add something to this site I have a connection with this and want to make it as good as it can be but I don’t think by limiting events in the way you suggest would help since from what I could tell the only events you would want to have allowed would be those on Wikipedia, which begs the question, why wouldn’t people just go to Wikipedia for it?, with what I was doing I’m trying to give this place an extra level by going into the area which Wikipedia doesn’t cover fully in the independent shows.--TheWho87 02:40, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

Claring Up What's "Noticeable"
Once again you hide behind the term noticeable, while never saying what makes them noticeable, if these events are noticeable to me does that make them worthy of bring here? Or does this only cover evening in which admins (mainly you) think are noticeable?--TheWho87 12:13, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

Personal Digs & Logical Reasons For These Events
Hey I saw your profile, don’t get all cocky and start making digs at me, I guess your ignoring me as well since you haven’t bothered to reply to what comprises a “noticeable” event, as well as giving two very logical ideas for guidelines for these independent promotion events and you constantly hide behind this screen of them not being "noticeable", personally I think that for all promotions that are not promoting consistent monthly pay per views should fall under a separate category in terms of which events are to be put on here, based on the promotion itself, the audience they have/had, how many DVD’s they have both produced themselves and that they have on sale through various companies and please don’t start up the BS about “anyone can get DVD’s out” yes that’s true, but not many of these promotions have deals which sell their product on an international scale and I know for a fact that promotions such as Ring of Honor, Shimmer, Full Impact Pro, Chikara, Xtreme Pro Wrestling, Pro Wrestling Guerrilla and a few others have a deal with a company called Big Vision Entertainment who sell DVD in main stream stores in both the US and UK.

But let me guess your just going to pawn this info off and hide behind the noticeable tag again but without giving any reason to what you feel would make something noticeable for the Wikia your just avoiding the whole point.

I will give you my reasoning behind the events I have already posted and why I feel their “noticeable”.

Their all in noticeable promotions, who may or may not be on TV or PPV, but they have a large audience on both a national and international level, they have used talent of various levels on their shows, they have constantly been producing events year on year and although maybe not selling out every night, they use the mediums they have to both promote and get a viable income for their promotion, both PWG and ROH have held events outside of their country and have been able to draw high numbers to those shows.

There is my view on these events, I await your comeback on how they “may not be noticeable” without giving an explanation on what you are considering noticeable although I have given strong reason why they are in my view where as all you have said is their “house shows” when their clearly not and you are stupidly comparing them on the same level as the WWE and TNA who are doing monthly PPV’s that’s basically like comparing the NBA with the EBL which is pointless since their played at different levels.--TheWho87 23:49, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

Wrestlers Match History Layout Idea
On a different note from above, I was thinking about a good way to do the whole event history for wrestlers, you know their match history and such, and while playing about I came up with this layout, what do you think Katarina Waters/Event history. --TheWho87 00:25, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

My reply to what you said & can we end this argument please
That comment I stand by since that was what you were doing and seems to be your only way to back your side, if you take the logical step and compare promotions of the same levels (such as the following, promotions running monthly PPVs, currently on TV, promoting frequent events or 2-3 per month) then you could have a more logical view on the subject, from the looks of it, you seem to have the mentality that if their not on TV or PPV and not trying to come to you their not noticeable. If you took the ideas which I have made over and over again which is (for the x amount of times saying it) use the notoriety of the promotion instead of the individual event for example, for a promotion running PPV and TV shows regularly, then PPV’s are a must add with the TV as optional, for a promotion like Ring of Honor who do occasional PPV and TV then it would be PPV’s as must adds with regular events as optional. For promotions who are on TV then chances are they don’t have any real events so they could have results recorded in an annual/monthly topic for all the results for events of that time, then comes those who do events recoded for DVD, now I’m not saying add every event what I am saying is that based on the promotions fan base run and international coverage then they can be ordered on how important events by them are.

Im getting rather pissed off that I have to keep going over this again and again because you don’t seem to want to take in any of these ideas I have put since you just either ignore or don’t say anything about them and go back to the “not noticeable” line, can I just ask if not noticeable doesn’t mean every aspect, does this mean not every WWE and TNA PPV or TV event needs to be added?, also the key reason I made that comment of you ignoring me, was mostly due to have seeing you on a couple times already in the recent changes section and since what I put was something key we were discussing I was wondering if you were ignoring the situation that’s all and don’t get all uppity about having an all this “offline” stuff everyone has that so don’t start having a go at me cause I’m on here more than most people.

Also my defence for these indy shows are not "every show by this indy promotion is notable because it advances storylines, has title changes and so on", although that is true, I’m not basing the fact an event should be added based on the event itself, to me for independent events it’s the status of the promotion and the promotions distribution of material and fan base (which I have gone on about a lot and I wont repeat it fully again) and from my knowledge WWE house shows rarely carry on storylines in the same way an independent event does, WWE house shows tends just to keep things rolling over till the next TV or PPV show they also have extremely weird booking for example I noted recently this year Snitsky was in main event positions on house shows while he is barely on TV, where as an indy show actually advances things as its all they do.

And can you stop going on about be wanting every event here, if you had paid one bit of attention to anything I have said to you, you would have seen that I am not putting every event up, I define which events I would put up based on the notoriety of the promotion itself which reiterates again that you haven’t been paying any attention to my suggestions.

I’m one of the key people here who actually do anything constructive and I find it slightly weird that those who are adding things here are not given any input on what can/can/should be added here, it seems that you and only you are in a position to do so and when given ideas you ignore them or just don’t give them the time of day, I don’t think this place will last long with that kind of ideal, I’m actually trying to help since you have said you don’t know that much on the indy aspect of wrestling, since I don’t follow the mainstream that much that could logically mean that if both of us can get on the same page then together we can logically work out a way to maximise this wikia for the use of both but this wont happen if you don’t accept or work on any of these ideas I have put which no offence I think would greatly help this problem.

And for your comment on the Big Vision DVD’s, since most promotions have put together compilation DVD’s with the company and if right I think only promotions like 3PW, Shimmer, ROH and maybe XPW are the only promotions that I know of which have full events sold by them, the rest tend to have compilation DVD’s but that still means they have DVD’s in stores across the world which increases their image.

Look I’m not trying to come over as someone trying to start problems, it just seems every time I try to talk about this and give logical options you seem to only take parts of what I say and use them in a negative fashion, at least admit the fact that I have given you 2-3 good options for a guide to these indy events and they have evolved as their not saying “every named event needs a page” or “every event listed on cagematch should have a page” which you constantly seem to have brought up out of nowhere, I have given logical and what I think best for all options on the matter, it just feels you don’t really seem to care about any other option other than the one you want to have.

Now can we end this argument about this and actually work on logical steps to get this done since that’s what I’m trying to do and you seem to just want to continue the argument.--TheWho87 02:15, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

Constructive Idea For Event Guidelines (Please Comment Back On Opinions)
Right I guess I kind of flooded you with messages here, sorry about that but you don’t seem to talk much on msn so I didn’t really have much choice.

Anyway I’m going to stop the arguing cause it seems to be a brick wall since we both keep reusing the same argument, right now I want to talk about this situation logically, first off I don’t care what Wikipedia does because simply put this place isn’t Wikipedia so please don’t use that as a negative for what I suggest.

Now for these the situation would cover the promotion at the time the event was so for example ROH would be


 * For promotions who currently run a monthly PPV’s and have national television shows (like WWE & TNA), the priority events to be added are their PPVs, next which would be optional would be special TV shows like for example Saturday Nights Main Event and the debut event of a show, they would be followed by regular television shows which would be not needed but optional again.
 * For promotions who have a weekly PPV deal (like TNA started on) then those events would be considered optional events.
 * For promotions who run occasional PPV with regular events (like ROH currently) then their PPV events are priority with their regular events which are named and recorded for other distribution (like DVD or TV) would be considered optional events to be added.
 * For promotions who run regular events which would be recorded for TV or DVD’s then the addition of those events is optional.
 * For promotions who have a television show and who put on bigger events (like ECW and the NWA/WCW started out with) then those bigger events would be optional additions.
 * For occasional events not run by one set promotions (for example cross promotion tournaments and such) then those events would be optional additions.
 * For any international events by a promotion (for example NOAH’s European Navigation) then the addition would not be a priority and is optional.
 * Events that would NOT need to be added would be any kind of house show for a promotion who runs PPV/TV shows/regular events unless for example the event is taped for future use (for example a TNA house show in the ECW arena was recorded for a DVD) and for any unnamed event for low level promotions.

However maybe (and this is a separate idea) but maybe things like lower level TV shows and house shows could have pages but instead of a page per event it could be a page per year/month of house shows.

Right that’s it, I personally feel that would cover any eventuality of events that could be posted here, although as you said “notability is not inherited” I’m sure that each promotion at some point fits into one of those categories and what I am proposing is that you base the importance of the event on the situation of the promotion at the time, for example ROH would fit under the forth option for all events up until their PPV debut in which all events including and after would be under the third option.

I hope that logically makes sense, also I will not reply back unless you give criticism/options on this idea because I don’t wish to get back to the argument which went nowhere.

Also what is your opion on my match history page layout? . --TheWho87 17:13, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

RE: Events and event history
Fantastic, well I hope that you can use the event idea to somehow put together a set of guidelines, at least it will stop our argument, one thing you might wish t add in might be for the TV and that it should be in the promotions home country, I say this for example there are a couple of UK promotions who have got TV deals in Germany, and personally although eligible, I think that it should be specific to home country that way people don’t try and squeeze things through the gaps.

And on the event history, I was just going through an idea with that and had a bit of a rework with it, although I don’t think on my recent version there is much else I could cut out, it does cover all the key points. --TheWho87 17:25, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

Hi Robert!
Hi Robert My name is Zac and I was just wondering I have been on Wikipedia for a while and have had over 1000 edits but I'm kinda tired with Wikipedia. How do I become a Admin on here? I promise not to abuse the the tools or nothing like that and I would be on here every day patrolling and reverting vandelizm. Please write me back, and as allway's Happy editing! RKO 4 Life 23:26, 18 August 2008 (UTC)
 * O.K and sorry about the name issue :). RKO 4 Life 18:16, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

Hello RobJ
Hi, Rob, I'm Shawn, a Helper here on Sports. I've been doing some edits and adding some articles I hope will be useful - mainly older WWF stuff that has red links on some articles. The higher ups at Wikia and I are all really impressed with what you guys have been doing on here, and we want to try and help you expand the wiki however we can. I'm looking at the list of admins here, and it looks like there hasn't been much admin action here for about a month aside from yours - would bringing in some more help you at all? Is there anything else you've been needing over here? Shawn ( talk ) 23:54, 24 September 2008 (UTC)