User talk:Moe Epsilon/Archive 2

Your ripples continue across the waters . ..
I noticed from your comments over on Why tags are evil that you are apparently the creator of the small sp icon? Is that really true? If so, I am down on my knees in homage. It's one of the greatest innovations I've seen in my 20 months on Wikipedia. I'm truly sorry that you are gone; I know that sometimes good people get really burned there sometimes.

I'm writing you now asking you to take a look at something that, as the creator of the small sp icon, you inspired. Very recently, a new, unobtrusive clean-up icon was created by User:Notmyhandle. Would you consider looking at it? It uses the broom that somebody added to the cleanup tag a while ago. And if you like it, could you leave a supportive comment as well? Thank you very much, and again, I'm sorry you felt you had to leave. I hope you come back sometime. Unschool

I'm here
I just made an account here. Hopefully this Wiki is better than the joke known as the wrestling project at Wikipedia. Is editing the same, same guidelines and all that? I haven't had a chance to read much yet. RobJ1981 22:19, 17 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I have a few more questions. Should articles be the real name or the wrestling name of the wrestler? I've seen both as I've looked through the articles here. In my opinion, we should be consistent: one way or the other, not both.


 * I recall you mentioning that this wiki could have TV show results, do you have a certain format for it planned out? Or should I go with the PPV format? I noticed there is this (as the only TV show result page I believe): RAW Show-May 28, 2007. A poor formatting, plus it doesn't explain any of the backstage segments or interviews.
 * Also I noticed there is no redirect button here, does that mean redirects wont work... or do I need to type it all out? Redirecting isn't an issue as of yet, but it will be helpful in the future when this wiki is bigger. RobJ1981 05:45, 18 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I figured out redirects work (but only by typing them out), so that question doesn't need to be answered. Concerning categories: is it necessary to have all the alumni categories? I can understand them for the bigger/well known companies (WWE, WCW, TNA, ECW, Ring of Honor I suppose, and possibly some others). If you look at the category (Professional wrestling rosters) for Wikipedia: there is at least 11 alumni pages. They include Wrestling Society X: very short lived. OVW: the training fed for WWE and so on. If you could give a guideline (or point me in the right direction), I will create the needed categories. If certain categories (such as living people for example) aren't needed, should they just be removed from the bottom of articles then? RobJ1981 05:28, 19 June 2007 (UTC)
 * A few more things. What about articles for managers? Should we be listing who they have managed in the article? I've created a sample TV show article for last night's Raw here: June 18 2007 Monday Night Raw results. Let me know what you think. I didn't see the show, and from the 2 reports I've seen..they differ, so correct or add on parts I have in the wrong order if you can. RobJ1981 21:09, 19 June 2007 (UTC)
 * One more thing: is it necessary to list triple crown champion (grand slam champion and so on, as well) in championships and accomplishments? I see it as cruft, but maybe that's just me. I suppose it's an accomplishment, but so is being the 4th ever holder of a belt, but we don't list those. I wish more people were active with this Wiki, then I wouldn't feel like I'm bothering you so much. RobJ1981 05:04, 20 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Older Raw results shouldn't be a huge problem. In my opinion, a one hour edition of Raw is much easier to do than a 2 or even 3 hour edition. Many of the original Raw episodes were dull in my opinion, as it was usually jobber matches. What about managers that spent time wrestling and managing? People such as Trish Stratus and Ted Dibiase for example, should they still have the list? Take a break from Wikipedia and help here. I have a to do list on my user page, with what needs work and possible new articles. It's a basic guideline to what I hope to do in the next few months. RobJ1981 17:55, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Hello
Hey Moe, it's been a while. Other than copying and trimming Wikipedia articles, is there anything else that I should be doing? Peace, -- The Hybrid {Page-Talk-Contributions} 05:56, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Alright, I'll keep the niche concept in mind, and avoid any disputes. Is there any content that is needed desperately that you know of? Peace, -- The Hybrid {Page-Talk-Contributions} 13:22, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Sweet. Peace, -- The Hybrid {Page-Talk-Contributions} 23:44, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

A few questions
How should team and stables articles be setup? The same as singles wrestlers, or some other way? I was thinking of making some articles on feuds, what do you think? Ideas for starting articles: Ric Flair/Hulk Hogan, Randy Savage/Hulk Hogan, Undertaker/Kane and so on. Extensive bios isn't what this Wiki is for, but what about storyline articles and other things people wouldn't normally find on Wikipedia?
 * Another possible idea: PWI 500 lists. I suppose a table of some sort should be used, but it would be long as it would need 500. I believe sometimes less than 500, if a list was incorrectly numbered (which I think was the case one time at least).
 * What about images? In general, how many should articles have?  A single wrestler: one serves a good purpose usually. But for someone like Kane, would it be useful to show pictures for several of his gimmicks: Isaac Yankem, Diesel and so on? I don't upload pictures (nor do I know where to find them), so someone else would need to do it. Otherwise I could learn. RobJ1981 09:55, 24 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I noticed this was created earlier today: Template:WWE Wrestler infobox. I dont think a promotion exclusive infobox is needed. The user made some other edits, but I didn't check to see if he is putting the infobox on the articles. Ignore this, if he is someone you know.

Reply
To reply to some of the stuff you posted on my talk: rosters exist for WWE and TNA only right now I believe. Ring of Honor, other America indies... as well as Japan, Mexico and so on are needed. WWE and TNA needed to be updated a little bit still. I should be pretty free this coming week to create and edit more. RobJ1981 05:15, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Also: for another idea, all the WWF/E television shows (that were just highlights for the most part) should be in one article. Then redirect the TV shows to the relevant section of the article. Jakked/Metal, Challenge and so on. Shows such as Superstars, Challenge could be added to a general article, but it's up in the air. Superstars and Challenge had lots of one-sided matches for a bit, then evolved into highlight shows more I believe. Many tiny articles seem like clutter to me.
 * Something that should be changed probably: WWE Raw. Shouldn't it be Monday Night Raw for the article, with the shortened names for redirects? Plus articles that need to be moved to WWE perhaps, but if the title was solely in WWF, shouldn't it remain that way for the article? That's the only issues that I've seen with the current article names.
 * Thanks for asking about us to become admins.

Alright. Just a quick question: should Raw be named RAW? We don't have Wikipedia’s MOS to follow, and since this is a wrestling wiki it may be worth considering. I don't really care either way, however. Also, thanks for asking Angela to sysop RJ and I. Peace, -- The Hybrid {Page-Talk-Contributions} 10:24, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

One other thing; I endorse the deletion and protection of that Rec article. I was a part of the AfD on Wikipedia that had to be deleted. You were correct in assuming that it was a bomb waiting to go off. Cheers, -- The Hybrid {Page-Talk-Contributions} 10:27, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

Congrats
I just checked the list of admins, and you are now a BCrat ;) -- The Hybrid {Page-Talk-Contributions} 10:47, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for sysopping me. Where exactly are the new buttons ;)? Peace, -- The Hybrid {Page-Talk-Contributions}

Yeah, I see them now. If only getting the mop on Wikipedia was this easy :P. Peace, -- The Hybrid {Page-Talk-Contributions} 12:54, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

Year articles
I've created 2 now (I mentioned this a little on Hybrid's talk as well). 1985 and 2007 are the only ones I've made so far. I wasn't sure of the formatting, so it could be changed. Something that needs to be added to 1985 (and many of the earlier years prior to the 2000s): births for wrestlers and wrestling staff, announcers and so on. I didn't think title changes should be listed, as that would be huge in some years (WWF hardcore title change years as one example), and clutter the article. So I think the suitable things for year articles should be: births, deaths, events (non-PPV) and PPV events as the must haves for just about every article. Possible things to add: key storylines, weddings, major firings, important hirings, big news stories (such as Raw becoming a show in 1993) and so on. I don't see a major need for all the year articles now, so I probably wont create anymore and I'll just expand the two there is now. RobJ1981 16:02, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia
Sure. I've been slashing some of the ones that we have when I stumble across them, and organizing them into a category would speed up the process. Peace, -- The Hybrid {Page-Talk-Contributions} 17:29, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I agree, thats a good plan. On a side note, is Wikipedia just down for me or is it not working for you either? I checked earlier, and a little bit ago, and it doesn't seem to work. RobJ1981 17:36, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

Thank You For The Warm Welcome
I would love you guys to build up this Wiki, and was wondering how to earn Administrator. Anyway, thank you for the warm welcome. Roger Murtaugh 20:16, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Oh, I've had 2 years on Wikipedia editing WWE Articles. Roger Murtaugh 01:19, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
 * What's yours? I'll Contact you on there, it's easier. Roger Murtaugh 05:02, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

Benoit's death
Damn, that's just plain sad. I turn the computer on, and that's the first thing I find out. The world has lost one of the greatest. One of my personal favorites of all time, gone. RobJ1981 01:10, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

I don't think that the 2007 article needs to be protected. This is a rather small wiki, and the article on Chris Benoit will draw whatever vandalism may come. I'd rather watch it for vandalism than protect it. Is that alright with you? -- The Hybrid {Page-Talk-Contributions} 10:35, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

Alright, cool. I just wanted to make sure that we were on the same page. What's your take on the Benoit thing, just out of curiosity. Peace, -- The Hybrid {Page-Talk-Contributions} 13:09, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

Understandable, and similar to my take. Peace, -- The Hybrid {Page-Talk-Contributions} 21:42, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

Thank You
Thank you for your consideration. I'll prove my Loyalty to you. Roger Murtaugh 12:54, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

What do you think?
A post was made here days ago: Forum:Transwiki from Wikipedia, but I didn't reply as I wasn't sure completely. My opinion on the matter is: some transwiki is fine, but if this ever becomes just a dumping ground of deleted articles from Wikipedia it might turn into a problem. Many deleted articles from Wikipedia are usually local wrestlers and/or the sometime hoax and fake article. While it's useful for this Wiki to have wrestling content (outside of the regular WWE, TNA and so on), should some limit be setup to prevent this from becoming a Wikipedia dumping ground of deleted articles? Especially considering (from some of what I've seen thats been deleted from Wikipedia): these local wrestlers havent done much, and in many cases no titles or anything worth mentioning, so that leads to some issues. What exactly are we going to put in their bio? Something such as Wrestler X has worked for a New York promotion for months now doesn't seem worth making an article over. Considering bios are brief and to the point, it would be even smaller, and hard to expand. I'm not sure lots of tiny articles should even be here, unless we want to be a guide to every wrestler ever... but I'm not that's correct to do. RobJ1981 05:17, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
 * If there are going to be standards on who is in/who is out (regardless of whether that is a matter of notability or article quality), they should be clear cut and either on the main page or linked to there.--DanZero 05:23, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

Key Templates
It probably would ease the creation of new pages on here if the key templates were accessible from the main page, as well as a categories navigation (if it is already, I apologize).--DanZero 05:23, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Also, what is the verdict on finishing moves/signature moves as part of pages here? Should new pages ape the "In wrestling" format utilized on wikipedia seen here []?--DanZero 05:35, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

Some questions
Some of this is listed above, but I did the bulleted format so it's not just a wall of text. RobJ1981 18:09, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Rosters: what's the complete idea to follow for them? Check DanZero and Hybrid's talk for my opinion on it.
 * Also, is there some kind of logo, infobox or whatever to show we are admins here? That would help people out I believe, then they could ask us instead of asking at some talk pages which could go unnoticed as recent changes isn't always checked. I've noticed a few posts recently on some talk pages, that I probably wont notice usually.
 * Transwiki: thoughts? I think it's good to do, but I just worry this could pile up with alot of rejected Wikipedia articles. Many of which are small and might not even be worth putting here.
 * Also Dan mentioned finishing moves. Seeing as how wrestling articles on Wikipedia are just move lists of clutter, and seem to be everchanging at times, what should be done? I would suggest list pages for some moves. For example: "Wrestlers that used the powerbomb for their finisher", then people like Sid Vicious and Vader would be listed and so on. These types of lists would be for notable uses of each move: not just one-time uses or whatever. But frankly it could lead to problems, if we don't know the wrestler that well and it involves us guessing or just removing due to lack of knowledge.
 * What about maintenance tags? Do any exist for this wiki? The Wikipedia template is a cleanup tag of sorts, but that's the only one I know of.
 * I got this idea from Wikipedia: how about a game on some talk page or whatever to just have fun with sometimes? Trivia, guessing or something.

Reply
Fair enough. It looks like I may have scared him away anywho. Cheers, -- The Hybrid  {Page-Talk-Contributions} 22:10, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

BTW, do you have any idea who is harrassing you with those accounts? -- The Hybrid  {Page-Talk-Contributions} 22:16, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

Unbelievable. Well, if I discover any I'll make sure to block them. Anyway, BB0 is crazy. He uses wikis as parts of his plans for stupid kid games in real life, as established by confession on Wikipedia. Apparently he runs his own yugioh thing in real life, and he has molded it after a wrestling promotion. From what I've read of his almost incoherent statements it appears two factions fight each other for control. Somehow he managed to get wikis involved in the conflict, and Metros on the pedia and I found ourselves caught in the crossfire. I wasn't thrilled that he followed me here, and his motives for doing so cannot be good ones. I wanted him gone before his vandal friends followed him here. They all have dynamic IP addresses. Whatever good edits that he would make while here don't cancel out the annoyance that these incredibly persistent freaks would create. Peace, -- The Hybrid  {Page-Talk-Contributions} 23:51, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

Reply/comments
RobJ1981 05:57, 5 July 2007 (UTC)
 * As for notability on wrestlers for here: I think as long as the person is known a bit above just a small area, it should be fine. Some new wrestler that has worked a few matches for a local area wouldn't be suitable for here. Same goes for other wrestling jobs: manager, referee and so on. But for a while, I wont be adding lesser people. Lots of WWF/E, NWA, TNA, ECW and WCW stars need articles still, so that's the main focus I look at when I create.
 * I think a "no links" or unsourced tag could be helpful. Some Wikipedia articles that were put here, have no external links or anything I believe. Chuck Palumbo is one example I found. Also as with Wikipedia: an image request page should be made in some form, as that's an issue with articles as well.
 * I noticed you listed Chad Bryant on the main page, is he even active anymore? I believe on Wikipedia, he has had vandalism/sock puppet issues (unless I'm thinking of someone else). This might need to be looked into, even if he isn't currently active. He could come here sometime, and vandalize possibly.
 * When I said no links: I meant no external links (and in some cases, no references or anything at all). Palumbo (that I listed above) is one example. I don't think he has a WWE profile yet, as he is just on Heat. I'm not sure if he has an official site or anything as well. OWW is the only link I can think of for him. Simon Diamond is another article that has no external links or references listed. RobJ1981 18:00, 5 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Reuben Kane needs to be checked for accuracy. According to the Wikipedia article: his real name is actually Robert Kane (and Reuben Kane is the actual real name of his brother). I didn't find any source to back this up, so I didn't move the article. Plus the article needs links as well. RobJ1981 19:25, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

International projection
Hey Moe, I came up with an idea regarding the title pages, please read this conversation to have an idea of what I mean, thanks for your time. - - Caribbe a n ~ H. Q.  03:26, 9 July 2007 (UTC)


 * I see, I uploaded three flags for IWA World Heavyweight Championship from commons yesterday, I believe that the ones I uploaded might cover the WWE championship also, perhaps uploading the flags per se when working a certain page might be easier? - Caribbe a n ~ H. <font color="#FFCC00">Q.  01:02, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

New infobox
I saw this was created earlier: Template:Infobox Wrestling event 2. The same as the other event box, except for a few things. When in doubt, we can add those later on to the infobox (if we really need it here). I didn't know if I should delete it or what, so I asked you. RobJ1981 05:24, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

Ring of Honor
I noticed List of ROH shows was recently made here. It seems to be a complete list of every ROH show ever, which is a bit crufty. I think the article should stay, but needs massive cleanup. Which shows are notable or not though? I follow the promotion from websites online, and that's all, so I wouldn't be able to help much. RobJ1981 00:20, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

More questions and comments

 * Is there a certain template you used when you did your created page (the page where you list everything you made) on Wikipedia? I like the layout, and I wanted to do it here (as well as Wikipedia).
 * I think I might start to compile a massive list of articles we need here. I suppose we could transwiki a bunch, but frankly...that will lead to more work in the long run (with all the cutting and all that: which still isn't perfect here yet with many articles). I will probably do these lists in my user space, but they could be moved to a wiki page and listed on the main page or something. I might even do a list of categories, but right now I'm going to focus on articles themselves. Top priority for creating should go to current WWE and TNA wrestlers/staff in my opinion.
 * Is there any other way to sort the content A-Z (all pages list) ? I know of the dropdown menu: but that's just for name space sorting. Just one big list seems a bit cluttered to me. I'm not sure what could be done with it though. Perhaps alphabetical pages in the future (when more articles are around)?  An all pages list is useful in my opinion, but not easy to navigate currently.
 * That's all I got... for now. RobJ1981 07:14, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

User:Caribbean H.Q.
I think that he would be a good sysop on here. He edits on Wikipedia as Dark Dragon Flame if you want to look over his contributions. I trust him so much that when I "retired" (yeah, that went real well ;) on Wikipedia he's the one I gave my adoptees to. Peace, -- <font color="Maroon">The Hybrid  {Page-Talk-Contributions} 05:46, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

Alright, I understand. I'll also try to become more active on here soon. Cheers, -- <font color="Maroon">The Hybrid  {Page-Talk-Contributions} 14:28, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

Sysop
Could you make me a Sysop on here. I know I'm not trustworthy on Wikipedia but, I guarentee I won't prove you wrong.-- Hornet man <font color="#CCCCCC">16  21:44, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
 * At least I tried. I'm trying to shape up. Read the bottom topic on my Wikipedia talkpage.-- Ho rn et ma n16 (talk) 03:06, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

Welcome back
As you can see, you didn't miss much here. Hopefully activity will pick up. RobJ1981 03:41, 5 August 2007 (UTC)
 * When I was in IRC I asked about a redirect button, and it could be added. What do you think? Help can be found here:. I think it could save some time, so we dont need to write it out all the time. RobJ1981 04:37, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

Hi
It's good to see that you're here too. How have you been doing? Big Boss Version 0 21:27, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

Very good. All of the chaos in PDL is finally over. The one guy moved to Chicago, the other two kids gave up dueling completely, and the last one I haven't seen since the end of the incident. Not to mention I dropped 145 pounds of dead weight named Nightmare 81 aka Jeremy Moore. That's about all I can think of at the moment. Big Boss Version 0 21:46, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

Some changes
Hi Moe Epsilon, please have a look at Forum:Redesign, some news and so on, and, if needed, browse my recent contributions here to see what has changed. I hope this is ok with you! Cheers --rieke 13:06, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

I'm not stalking I swear...
But is there any chance there are less, uh, "politics" in this neck of the woods? I'm about fed up elsewhere
 * ( --Nahallac Silverwinds 00:44, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

Blocked
Hey Moe I was blocked by someone and have no idea why. It is probably because Hyberid blocked the Big Boss 0 account and considered me a vandal because of making that account unusable. Could you please help me. User: Big Boss Version 0

Thanks for the help. Anyway I noticed that there have been a string of accounts blocked that mention that you have failed at 5 request for adminship on wikipedia. What is with that anyway? Big Boss Version 0 00:01, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

To see what I think about BB0, see my post on RJ's talk page. -- <font color="Maroon">The Hybrid  {Page-Talk-Contributions} 03:38, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

Questions
I'm finally starting to poke around here and figure out what I can and can't do, but I'm confused by certain policies. It would seem to me, that the "Pro Wrestling" Wiki would want as complete a coverage of all things pro wrestling as possible, so this policy confuses me and gives no rationale for its purpose:

Taken from Pro Wrestling:Content policy:

Types of articles not allowed

The following are types of articles that are not allowed and are subject to immediate deletion:


 * "List of" articles (i.e. "List of WWE Champions")
 * "Roster" articles (real or imaginary)

So do you have any idea why these types of articles are not allowed? If there is sound reasoning for it, the reasoning should be provided on the page I linked :)

I know I'll have more questions :P

Thanks, --Nahallac Silverwinds 19:05, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

Admin
The Hybrid asked if I wanted Admin powers since I'm pretty active on here and I've been trying to get this site really rolling. I figured it couldn't hurt to be able to take action against the odd vandal so I like the idea. He said I needed to talk to you about it though? MPJ-DK 17:31, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, I'll request that I be desysopped to the ratio isn't completely out of proportion. This guy is far more active here than I am. All I'm doing right now is commenting in the forum, and I don't need the sysop status to do that. So, I'd like it if you'd grant him the admin status. Once that goes through I'll ask a staffer to remove my access. Peace, -- <font color="Maroon">The Hybrid  {Page-Talk-Contributions} 22:45, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

Well, if it doesn't bother you that more than half of the active users on this site are admins, then I guess that it doesn't bother me. I guess I'm not active enough for it to "hurt" anyway. The important thing was that he was made admin. Cheers, -- <font color="Maroon">The Hybrid  {Page-Talk-Contributions} 06:02, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

New Templates
I added new templates for Cite news, and Cite book, however, there are no instructions on there respective pages on how to use them, I'm not exactly familiar with how to go about doing that (standardization of such things, etc.), what sould I do concerning that? Bmg916 14:25, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
 * When I return from my wikipedia wikibreak, I'll place instructions on how to use them on the template. Thanks for creating them. — <font color="FF0000">M <font color="EE0000" >o <font color="DD0000">e <font color="0000FF">ε  19:58, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

There's a problem
Do you have any idea why MPJ-DK doesn't show up in any of the user lists? He doesn't show up in the list of active users, sysops, any of them! Do you have any idea what's going on? -- <font color="Maroon">The Hybrid  {Page-Talk-Contributions} 07:26, 4 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I noticed that too, since it's an automatically generated page I thought it was odd that I didn't show up. MPJ-DK 16:44, 4 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I noticed this too. I'll file a bug report when I return from my wikibreak on wikipedia. It's nothing that can't be fixed, and it shouldn't bring any immediate problems as our contributions as still accessable and histories are intact, and your admin logs are still functional. — <font color="FF0000">M <font color="EE0000" >o <font color="DD0000">e <font color="0000FF">ε  19:57, 6 October 2007 (UTC)